S1 E3: Taking up Space (Alex / @AutisticManager)
Alex Karp joins the show to talk about his origin story, growing up being fascinated with tech, embracing the iOS development industry before moving into engineering management.
We discuss his passion for helping new engineers break into the industry. We talk about some of the common challenges and fears that can hold people back from applying to and going for the jobs that interest and excite them.
Transcript
You'd get to the 45 minute mark and then you'd see your build fail
Alex:Not because it didn't compile but because it had two lines of white
Alex:space next to each other and that was just the most sole crushing thing That
Alex:I've had to deal with as a developer
Alex:they see this job opening as this hole that they're trying to fill and in
Alex:order to do that they crunch themselves up and they make themselves small
Alex:in order to fit in this neat little hole when in reality they have all
Alex:of this experience that is valuable
Eddie:Welcome to Episode 3 of the WebJoy podcast.
Eddie:I'm your host, Eddie.
Eddie:In this podcast, we interview guests about their origin story and what
Eddie:makes them excited and joyful to be part of the tech community.
Eddie:I hope you enjoy today's episode "Taking up Space" with Alex Karp.
Eddie:Today we have Alex Karp and Alex do you want go ahead and introduce
Eddie:yourself who you are, what you do, where you work just uh brief intro
Alex:Yeah my name's Alex He/ him pronouns I am based out of the Boston area just
Alex:north of Boston I am an engineering manager at Twitter My team is called
Alex:media foundation client so my team owns the media library at Twitter So anytime
Alex:that you watch a video or listen in on a space or laugh at funny GIF that's
Alex:all based off of my team and our library
Eddie:Nice Well Hey I appreciate the work you all do I use plenty of
Eddie:GIFs on your service and have joined a couple of spaces So definitely glad
Eddie:you all are there and doing what you do
Alex:Yeah we have a lot of fun doing it
Eddie:Well what's kind of a short version of your story How
Eddie:did you get involved in tech and what has your trajectory been like
Alex:Yeah I've been talking about this a lot lately with all of the coffee
Alex:chats with the # hunter devs folks I tell people I got really lucky in a
Alex:way I knew from a very young age that I liked computers I liked messing about
Alex:on them and so I found resources online to teach myself basic web development.
Alex:This was back in the day when there weren't nearly as many resources as there
Alex:were now though to be fair there was only one flavor of JavaScript and I kind of
Alex:liked it that way, Kind of missed that but I looked at programming as a cool way of
Alex:solving problems, usually my own problems cause I'm a little bit selfish like that
Alex:so it was this way of doing that And so I would just start on these projects and
Alex:learn through that then when the iPhone was released I was like oh wow This means
Alex:that I could take my things wherever I go.
Alex:So of course I dived into iOS development and that's been most of my more recent
Alex:developer history but I've done both front-end and back-end development on
Alex:web and a bunch of iOS development.
Alex:Because I knew from such a young age what I wanted to do I was able to
Alex:put myself through a computer science program get internships and then right
Alex:outta school I was at Microsoft for a year doing some front-end back-end and
Alex:Microsoft development so I got to do some interesting server side executable things.
Eddie:Sorry to hear that That doesn't sound fun
Alex:Honestly the least fun bit about it was the way That our compile system
Alex:worked the whole thing would take 25 minutes on an incremental build more
Alex:like 45 on a clean release build.
Alex:But the most frustrating thing about it was that we had this linter and the
Alex:linter was incredibly strict if it found anything it would fail but they
Alex:didn't run the linter until after they had compiled everything So you'd get to
Alex:the 45 minute mark and then you'd see your build fail Not because it didn't
Alex:compile but because it had two lines of white space next to each other and that
Alex:was just the most sole crushing thing That I've had to deal with as a developer
Eddie:Yeah that sounds painful And for anyone listening who isn't as
Eddie:familiar with programming linter would basically be like a grammar checker
Eddie:for programming code So it's checking to make sure all the grammar of the
Eddie:programming is the exact correct As it should be And like someone missed a
Eddie:period at the end of the sentence and that 45 minute whole thing was wasted Now
Alex:yeah Especially on a team it's just a way of ensuring that all
Alex:of our code kind of looks the same and that we can read each other's
Alex:code That's that sort of thing.
Alex:After that I ended up at Wayfair for about five years going from doing development
Alex:into management which was interesting but I did have a lot of fun there in
Alex:the almost five years that I was there we grew from seven mobile engineers to
Alex:I think we were about 155 When I left, so some pretty rapid growth and it was
Alex:a wild ride and then back in February of 2020 I was part of the layoffs at Wayfair,
Alex:so that's how I ended up at Twitter
Eddie:Yeah that's definitely been a journey that you've been on this
Eddie:fun ride and you've ended up where you are now what keeps you excited
Eddie:and what interests you about tech now that you've been here for a while
Alex:Yeah I think it's the fact that tech and software engineering it just
Alex:intersects with everything if you think of anything else that's outside of tech
Alex:that you're interested in there is some intersection with software so that's a
Alex:really cool thing where if you get bored of working on one sort of thing you can
Alex:go work on a different sort of thing I think that really helps keep things
Alex:exciting and there's always something new to learn Like you're basically forced to.
Alex:As long as you like learning new things and trying out different
Alex:areas then you know it's a lot of fun
Eddie:I love that I really feel that in my core I worked for a design agency
Eddie:where we built stuff for random companies I did something that helped doctors in
Eddie:the ER see how to use certain surgical tools on an iPad And then I was working
Eddie:on a cyber security application and now I'm at Glassdoor And I'm helping
Eddie:build software for businesses to understand the needs of their Employees
Eddie:in an anonymous fashion and stuff.
Eddie:Like you those are all very different things And yet we get to be involved
Eddie:in all of it because we are technology professionals So that's super exciting
Alex:Yeah, absolutely.
Eddie:Well the goal of this podcast is to kind of talk about things that Bring us
Eddie:joy around the tech industry so I have a question for you which is what brings you
Eddie:joy and what would you like to talk about
Alex:I'd say recently it's just been not only the number of people but I guess the
Alex:breadths of people that taking part in things like #100Devs or other boot camps
Alex:or teaching themselves and just kind of deciding Hey I want to try this let's
Alex:give it a shot and just how open everybody has seemed to be about their journey
Alex:as they learn which I think is awesome
Eddie:That's definitely cool what do you think gets you excited about getting into
Eddie:tech and helping people get into tech?
Alex:Yeah I would again say that I've been kind of lucky in my career in that
Alex:with both Wayfair and Twitter they had programs that were designed to bring
Alex:more people in so at Wayfair we called that Wayfair Labs And at Twitter we have
Alex:Twitter apprenticeships And the idea with both of these is to take people who are
Alex:either coming off of a bootcamp or have taught themselves how to how to write
Alex:code or are just starting out in their career or switching from another career.
Alex:Any of these circumstances where it might be difficult for them to just go out and
Alex:get a job as a junior engineer These are programs where you have a three month
Alex:period or a one year period in which they're looking to bridge the gap between
Alex:being able to write code and being able to write code as part of a team at a software
Alex:company and I've gotten to do a lot of both interviewing for these roles And I've
Alex:gotten to work with a lot of the people who have come through these programs And
Alex:I am constantly amazed by the people that come through these programs they are some
Alex:of the most driven people I've seen They have really interesting ideas that I don't
Alex:think we would have thought of had we had we not had them on our team and also
Alex:they're just really happy to be there and that happiness is kind of infectious
Eddie:I totally get that I helped mentor at the collab lab which is a nonprofit
Eddie:focused on helping people in the exact same stages that you talked about the
Eddie:Twitter apprenticeship and at Wayfair and like you said I've seen the same stuff.
Eddie:I helped a cohort earlier this year and I was just amazed at how they came
Eddie:together and worked together in a team.
Eddie:No one had to teach them how to work together in a team that just blows
Eddie:my mind because I feel in the people who are normally in the developer tech
Eddie:industry I feel one of the big things we have to do in engineering management
Eddie:type things is figure out how to get our people to work together rather
Eddie:than just be engineers in their corners programming and this influx of new people
Eddie:who want to work together and solve problems it's a really fresh perspective.
Alex:Yeah absolutely and that's one of the things that I tell a lot of people
Alex:when they're asking about how to get into tech is to think about some of these
Alex:other skills that they have especially if they've had other jobs or even the
Alex:experiences you wouldn't think about where they develop things like teamwork
Alex:communication leadership resilience all of these experiences that just get completely
Alex:overlooked when people are applying to jobs that end up actually being really
Alex:important And I would say at equally important and potentially even more
Alex:important than the tech side of things
Eddie:Yeah that makes a lot of sense at the end of one of our eight week cohorts
Eddie:we have one person become like the pseudo tech lead for the cohort whereas the
Eddie:mentors have been leading it up to that point and the cohort I was just a part of
Eddie:... I was amazed because one person was like yeah I'll do it And they were so organized
Eddie:and I'm like they've never really worked in a team programming setting in this
Eddie:way And yet here they are knocking things off the list like a tech lead of
Eddie:years And I'm like how is this possible?
Eddie:To your point then I found out after the fact jobs that they've been at in
Eddie:the past they've been team leads in non-technical capacities They've been
Eddie:in these leadership type things And then you bringing those skills into the
Eddie:tech realm it's just goes flawlessly And if they don't realize that they can
Eddie:put that out there as a strength and as a resource then they're definitely
Eddie:missing something that can help it
Alex:Yeah I talk about it a lot in terms of taking up space . for junior
Alex:engineers or people going for their first role they see this job opening as this
Alex:hole that they're trying to fill right and so in order to do that they crunch
Alex:themselves up and they make themselves small in order to fit in this neat little
Alex:hole when in reality they have all of this experience that is valuable and by
Alex:really thinking about what it is that they bring to the table what value they bring
Alex:to the team to the company they're taking up space and that's just a much stronger
Alex:place to sell yourself from It's like Hey this is who I am This is the value
Alex:that I bring These are the experiences that I've had that I think will help the
Alex:company or will help me think differently that makes a much stronger case than
Alex:by trying to fit into what you perceive as the hole that they're trying to fill
Eddie:If you could choose one thing that's the most important for people
Eddie:to know when they're trying to get into tech What do you think that is?
Alex:Honestly I would say that's probably one of the biggest things
Alex:that I would mention to people.
Alex:A couple of other things that I think are right up there.
Alex:One is don't focus so much on the technical interviews and if you do focus
Alex:on them focus on learning how to problem solve it's a much more generic way of
Alex:looking at these problems cause you will never ever memorize enough algorithms
Alex:and data structures to attack each one perfectly nor should you have to.
Alex:The other one is don't be afraid to apply if you don't meet all of the requirements
Alex:for a role people forget that these job descriptions are written by people
Alex:who overwhelmingly suck at writing job descriptions and conveying specifically
Alex:what it is that they're looking for, and I include myself in this category.
Alex:So don't get discouraged if you don't meet things perfectly you're
Alex:likely that candidate anyway
Eddie:I agree with that As someone who's also written job descriptions it's like
Eddie:we are trying to create a person out of nothing we know that what we are writing
Eddie:this person doesn't exist as a single entity but we have to craft a person And
Eddie:if you feel like any part of that person resonates with you then you're probably
Eddie:a good candidate because we know not everyone's going to match everything And
Eddie:so yeah Throw your hat in the ring if you feel like it touches on your experience
Eddie:in some way And that's what interviews are for, For us to tease out and figure out
Eddie:if you are the right fit And so it doesn't hurt to to throw your hat in the ring.
Eddie:I know that I started getting a lot more job interviews because I used to
Eddie:have that same perspective I'd look down and I'm like oh I'm two years
Eddie:shy of this requirement And I wouldn't apply And definitely in the last four
Eddie:years five years or so I've started to just say you know what if this thing is
Eddie:remotely where I'm headed remotely what I'm interested in If I can find some
Eddie:way to spin it as being relevant to my experience like I'm going to apply And
Eddie:if I get to the interview and It bombs then that saved me because I wasn't ready
Eddie:but if it doesn't then I am ready and just let the interview be the thing that
Eddie:cancels you out rather than not applying
Alex:Right Cause you'll always wonder what if I had applied Like
Alex:what have I gotten that job you'll never regret applying for something and
Alex:getting told that you're not ready yet
Eddie:As we wrap up this episode as a community like we love to support
Eddie:each other We love to hear what each other is doing and what's going on So
Eddie:is there anything that you're involved with or anything you've worked on
Eddie:recently that you'd like to share and let the community know about
Alex:Absolutely So I just I wrote a book and it's available now So it's called
Alex:running start and the whole premise of the book is that it is intended to help
Alex:More people get into tech my goal when writing it was to take my experiences
Alex:and my observations as both an engineer and a manager and Use that to create I
Alex:sometimes call it a cheat sheet for your career but it's basically everything that
Alex:I wish that I would have known at the beginning of my career that I think if I
Alex:had known would've made a big difference and the goal in writing it was to try
Alex:to make it as accessible as possible so the primary audience for the book are
Alex:people who are coming out of boot camps people who are trying to break into tech
Alex:but the way that it's written I think really anybody can get value out of it.
Eddie:Awesome let's pause for a second and realize you just said I just published
Eddie:a book I mean that's a huge thing you know what I mean so many people myself
Eddie:included have thought about writing a book but most of us haven't so congrats!
Eddie:What a huge milestone to be able to say yes I not only started writing a book
Eddie:which thousands of people have done but you finished writing a book and
Eddie:It's published and it's out there for people to check out So congrats on that
Alex:Thank you It's really surreal but I'm so happy that it's out there
Eddie:Awesome as Alex has said like it is useful to everyone, people
Eddie:particularly in bootcamps and things like that but really if it sounded
Eddie:interesting to you you're probably in the target audience So is there
Eddie:a website that they can go to check
Alex:Yeah absolutely You can go to RunningStart.dev where you can purchase a
Alex:digital copy Or if you go search Running Start on Amazon you can buy a copy for
Alex:your Kindle a hard cover or a paperback.
Eddie:Awesome So everyone go check it out And that's about it for this
Eddie:episode Thank you for joining us Alex!
Alex:Thank you for having me
Eddie:Thanks for joining us for episode 3, "Taking up Space" with Alex Karp.
Eddie:You can find out more about Alex on his Twitter @AutisticManager.
Eddie:You can find links to everything we talked about in this episode, as well as a link
Eddie:to Alex's Twitter in the show notes.
Eddie:If you enjoyed this episode, please consider rating and reviewing it
Eddie:in your favorite podcast directory.
Eddie:And following us on Twitter @WebJoyFM
