Episode 29

full
Published on:

27th Dec 2022

S1 E29: Please, just give a girl a chance (Amber / @AmberLeeTech)

Amber joins the show to talk about her origin story, from studying economics and accounting to learning how to program, becoming a software engineer and now co-hosting the Glowing in Tech podcast.

We discuss the challenges of getting into tech as a career switcher, and the 4 types of imposter syndrome. She shares about how she started interviewing for technical degrees and jobs too early, but what she learned from that journey.

Discussed Links

Transcript
Eddie:

Welcome to episode 29 of the web joy podcast.

Eddie:

I'm your host Eddie.

Eddie:

In this podcast, we interview guests about their origin story and what

Eddie:

makes them excited and joyful to be part of the tech community.

Eddie:

I hope you enjoy today's episode.

Eddie:

Please just give a girl a chance with Amber Shand.

Eddie:

Welcome to another episode of Web Joy.

Eddie:

I'm excited to have Amber with us today.

Eddie:

Amber, say hi to the nice people listening.

Eddie:

Hello everyone.

Eddie:

. Awesome.

Eddie:

Well, thank you for coming on the podcast.

Eddie:

I'd love to take a couple minutes to have you just kind of explain who

Eddie:

you are, what you do, where you work.

Eddie:

You know, a brief intro.

Eddie:

Cool.

Amber:

Well, thank you so much for having me.

Amber:

It's amazing to be here.

Amber:

So a bit about me.

Amber:

So my name's Amber.

Amber:

I come from an economics and accounting degree.

Amber:

So I actually was learning how to code in my second year of

Amber:

university when I did a mergers and acquisitions internship in Madrid.

Amber:

And I realized that finance definitely was not for me.

Amber:

then?

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

Went through Coach First Guard, retrained through there in 2020.

Amber:

During the pandemic, I started taking a lot more seriously, and now I'm

Amber:

an award-winning front-end engineer.

Amber:

I also have a podcast called Glowing in Tech, where I co-host alongside Jesse,

Amber:

where we showcase black women in tech.

Amber:

Also have a blog@amand.co uk and I think that's it.

Eddie:

That's awesome.

Eddie:

Well, it sounds like you've been busy.

Eddie:

Yeah, definitely.

Eddie:

. I think no one would blame you for wanting to shift into tech after dealing

Eddie:

with a merger and an acquisition.

Eddie:

Internship.

Eddie:

Doesn't sound particularly fun, but I guess in the midst of that,

Eddie:

you ended up shifting to tech.

Eddie:

What was it that.

Eddie:

kind of made you think when you realized, this isn't what I want

Eddie:

to do, how did you realize mm-hmm tech is what you wanted to do?

Eddie:

Oh, that's

Amber:

such a good question.

Amber:

I think that at the time there was a lot of really scary news about automation

Amber:

taking over jobs and how like, You know, professions that we admire,

Amber:

like lawyers, doctors, surgeons, and all these other well respected roles,

Amber:

were now g going to be automated by like AI and all these scary things.

Amber:

And I was like, darling, I don't have time for this . So . So I research

Amber:

into like high in demand skills cuz I wanted to, I just need to be protected.

Amber:

I.

Amber:

Darling's.

Amber:

I don't wanna be a victim of technology.

Amber:

I want to be like on the side of it, like actually building it.

Amber:

And then that's how I found about coding and I was like,

Amber:

what, what is this thing else?

Amber:

So I was just so confused.

Amber:

But, um, that's when, we'll code First Girls.

Amber:

I did the web development course, you know, a cheeky little h email, c s s.

Amber:

The bare basics.

Amber:

And I was out here saying that I was a web developer, so when it, I was like,

Amber:

yes, darling, this coding thing is just, this is what they were talking about

Amber:

And then when I was applying for rolls, I was like, JavaScript . No

Amber:

one said anything about that , and, and at the time there wasn't a big.

Amber:

Like frenzy, I wanna say overreact, but I was just so shocked at like

Amber:

the huge barrier to entry that there was compared to like finance.

Amber:

We can say I'm passionate about numbers.

Amber:

And there wasn't necessarily the whole data structures and algorithms interviews

Amber:

proving yourself before landed that role.

Amber:

Like I didn't have to have like a project list of all the accounts

Amber:

that I've balanced to prove that, you know, I can be an accountant.

Amber:

So that was just a huge shift.

Amber:

I just couldn't comprehend the fact that now these interviews were gonna

Amber:

be super, it's really challenging.

Amber:

And I kept having that barrier of, oh, but you don't have a computer science.

Amber:

Why do you wanna do this ? I'm like, please just give a, go a chance.

Amber:

. . Eddie: Yeah.

Amber:

I guess how did you, how did you deal with that, right?

Amber:

Obviously, you ran into this.

Amber:

Interview type stages that it's intimidating for all of us, right?

Amber:

No matter if it's been a year or 10 years.

Amber:

In tech.

Amber:

You obviously made it.

Amber:

You pushed through , you got the job.

Amber:

How did you approach that?

Amber:

What was kind of the thing that kind of ticked over in your mind where you

Amber:

were like, all right, I can do this.

Amber:

And, and everything.

Amber:

So with Code First Girls, that was a great instruction to

Amber:

web development as a concept.

Amber:

And then we also had the Python course, which actually introduced us to the

Amber:

concept of APIs and things of that region.

Amber:

But I had no clue what was going on, so I went back to university to finish

Amber:

off my economics and accounting degree, and then, 20, 20 March the pandemic hit

Amber:

and I was just like, what is going on?

Amber:

like I was, I was so in denial.

Amber:

I was like, to my friends, look darlings, it's going to be fine.

Amber:

But then I realized I really need to take this coding thing seriously because

Amber:

I'd been applying for graduate schemes.

Amber:

From August, 2019 and I kept getting rejected and the only a

Amber:

few I got through one of them, they were like, you know what?

Amber:

Don't stress out about, you know, the test.

Amber:

And then it was, I, no one had told me at this point about

Amber:

data structures and algorithms.

Amber:

So all I'm seeing is binary research tree.

Amber:

What's this one?

Amber:

Oh no.

Amber:

And I'm.

Amber:

All I know is all I know at this point is basically H M L C S S like, and a

Amber:

bit of Python, but not to the extent of knowing how to reverse a binary

Amber:

research tree or to steal these things.

Amber:

I was like, what's this tree that they're talking about?

Amber:

? I was, I was so confused, and it was a real wake up call that I

Amber:

probably can't balance my degree and actually learning how to.

Amber:

because it was too much of a learning curve for me to do both, and it

Amber:

was my final year of university and things were getting really tough.

Amber:

So the pandemic hit and now like I've got a lot of time and that's when I joined

Amber:

the Sky Getting to Tech Scheme, which is a 14 week part-time course with Skye.

Amber:

And that was great because I had the power of community so we were all

Amber:

learning together, which was great.

Amber:

And I was also teaching with Code First Girls.

Amber:

I was teaching the words button course cuz remember I was saying

Amber:

I know about H one CSS at least.

Amber:

And I was looking at cuz the thing.

Amber:

A big feedback that was I was getting was one, I didn't have a computer

Amber:

science degree, so I didn't get through like most of like past the CV stage.

Amber:

So I was stalking people on LinkedIn who had a computer science degree

Amber:

and how can I stand out against them?

Amber:

And like a few of them had taught with Code First Girls.

Amber:

So I thought, okay, great.

Amber:

Two and one, you know, accelerating my learning.

Amber:

Giving back to the community, but then also like being able to put stuff in my

Amber:

CV and say, look, I'm technical enough if I'm able to at least be involved

Amber:

in this, in teaching a coding course.

Amber:

Right.

Amber:

That's awesome.

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

Thank you.

Amber:

And so my whole thing was, okay, I need to kind of build up my brand

Amber:

at the same time that having solid proof that I can actually code my

Amber:

projects teaching and be involved in this community because it meant.

Amber:

There's that accountability.

Amber:

I think that it can be quite a lonely route.

Amber:

Learning how to code and face all these hurdles and all these

Amber:

things that you see on Twitter.

Amber:

Roadmap to land your first straw and then it's like H M L C S S, JavaScript

Amber:

React testing like data shots now.

Amber:

And it's so overwhelming.

Amber:

I remember feeling so stressed.

Amber:

It is.

Amber:

I was like, I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to, to actually land that

Amber:

role because it was so stressful.

Amber:

But it also, like I was para programming with my friend, we

Amber:

pray, programmed every day from like 9:00 AM to 12:00 PM for like.

Amber:

Two months on Code Wars.

Amber:

Wow.

Amber:

And it was so helpful because she was better than me and when it's

Amber:

amazing me to find someone better than you, cuz it means that they

Amber:

can explain certain concepts to you.

Amber:

And, and it was just probably the one of the most amazing experiences because

Amber:

it taught me how to think like a coder.

Amber:

I just didn't, when I saw like those little mini, like the basic cat.

Amber:

I was, how am I meant to know that an array is the thing that I

Amber:

need to use to solve this problem?

Amber:

How do I know about the various different methods when it comes

Amber:

to various different data types?

Amber:

That whole concept was super confusing.

Amber:

So I think that the power of community definitely accelerated my learning

Amber:

growth, and I had a lot of help when it came to preparing for interviews as.

Amber:

, which was amazing.

Eddie:

Yeah.

Eddie:

I think, like you said, problem solving, right?

Eddie:

And understanding what tools to apply to different situations.

Eddie:

It's all about actually encountering those situations where like you need to

Eddie:

use that tool and having someone there to be able to say, Hey, this situation

Eddie:

is where I, you, you would use this and this one is where I'd use that.

Eddie:

I love that, that, that definitely, I can see how that would

Eddie:

speed up the learning process.

Amber:

And it's like when you are getting that kind of rejection,

Amber:

it can be easy for you to be put off of still applying for roles.

Amber:

And the thing is, I know that I applied way too early who told me to apply

Amber:

for computer science graduate skills when I only knew H O C S S basically.

Amber:

But I feel like I would definitely apply early cuz it gives you a great insight

Amber:

into what you need to prepare for.

Amber:

So I remember applying for the scheme and someone asked me about GI.

Amber:

And I was like, we've just used GitHub desktop.

Amber:

Like I was like, I know about the whole pulling and pushing concept,

Amber:

but I didn't know about GI commands.

Amber:

And so after that interview I basically wrote down all of the

Amber:

questions that she asked me.

Amber:

I made sure to learn everything.

Amber:

That's cuz it's like, clearly I know that with, well at the time

Amber:

I didn't know the importance of.

Amber:

So I've reached out to a few software developers.

Amber:

I knew, I was like, is this something that I really need to learn?

Amber:

Is it like the whole binary research tree thing?

Amber:

Which I'm just not going to be

Amber:

I'm just, I'm just not gonna delve in, like, is this actually

Amber:

something I need to know?

Amber:

And it was like confirmed like, yes, you'll be using this tool every day.

Amber:

You need to know how to use a terminal.

Amber:

and I was like, terminal commands . But yeah, it, it's honestly a great way to

Amber:

focus on the things that you actually need to learn to learn that role and things

Amber:

that are relevant within that role as

Eddie:

well.

Eddie:

Yeah, I think that's utilizing, putting yourself into a position a little

Eddie:

bit earlier than you might do it.

Eddie:

Hopefully that also could take pressure off, like if someone knows,

Eddie:

okay, I'm not actually expecting to.

Eddie:

, get into graduate school right now or get a job right now, but that I'm just

Eddie:

putting myself in this position to learn what people are looking for and like,

Eddie:

yeah, hopefully that takes a little bit of the pressure off, you know,

Eddie:

they can just think of it as practice.

Eddie:

I think that's awesome.

Eddie:

Yeah, exactly.

Eddie:

One of the things that we try to talk about every episode is

Eddie:

something that brings you joy.

Eddie:

, what is it that kind of brings you joy?

Eddie:

Oh my gosh,

Amber:

there's so many different things.

Amber:

One of my missions is definitely to get more women into tech, like wherever that's

Amber:

through, learning how to code or whatever.

Amber:

But I think that's why I've been so heavily involved in various different

Amber:

communities, like Code First Girls and Code Black females, and just to

Amber:

see their development as they go from, you know, just being quite confused.

Amber:

, what's a variable?

Amber:

What are like basic like four loops and things like that to

Amber:

actually landing their first role.

Amber:

And I think that there's a lot of courses out there about how to

Amber:

code, but there's a lot of things that aren't necessarily focused.

Amber:

Like there's not a big focus on like just how much imposter syndrome may

Amber:

impact you even applying for jobs and when you apply for those jobs.

Amber:

And I've been doing a lot more research into things like composite syndrome and

Amber:

how that shows up in various different.

Amber:

And like how it's definitely affected me.

Amber:

So one way is the expert.

Amber:

So sometimes when you feel like you never know enough, how can I apply for a role

Amber:

when I'm not proficient at JavaScript?

Amber:

But then how was that measured?

Amber:

You know?

Amber:

Or it's like the perfectionist, they have super high expectations.

Amber:

Like, I don't want to go to an interview if I can't answer those questions.

Amber:

There have been times in interviews where I've said, I dunno the answer.

Amber:

I remember, I was like, I'm sorry, I, I actually dunno the answer to this.

Amber:

And it's so uncomfortable.

Amber:

It's so awkward, and I can understand how that can actually take an effect on

Amber:

your confidence because I'm someone that has very high expectations for myself.

Amber:

So the fact that I'm here telling this person, I don't have a clue.

Amber:

It just makes you feel very vulnerable.

Amber:

And I remember.

Amber:

Having the worst interview of my life, and I'm screaming, like, I'm

Amber:

literally screaming afterwards.

Amber:

Like, that was the world's worst interview also, um, PO as

Amber:

you know, the natural genius.

Amber:

So, so there's a thing called GSCs, which is for like, I wanna say 11

Amber:

year olds to 16 year olds in the.

Amber:

Those came very easy to me.

Amber:

And because that kind of instilled this, I should get things on

Amber:

the first try kind of thing.

Amber:

Mm, yeah.

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

Like when I'm like learning how to code, I'm like, why do I need

Amber:

to look back at this fall loop?

Amber:

Like, why can't I just learn it once and then it's just in here?

Amber:

and like, um, sometimes I was even talking about this in Twitter

Amber:

space today when people say, oh, how'd you get so good at coding?

Amber:

And the answer for everything, how to good, good at anything

Amber:

is time and consistency.

Amber:

But everyone wants that kind of hack.

Amber:

Like, I wanna get good in six days.

Amber:

How can I get 10 years of developer experience in six days?

Amber:

Is there like kind of some cheat form that I can do?

Amber:

And then also the soloist and they're the person that kind

Amber:

of says, oh, I can't ask for.

Amber:

Or any questions cuz it just exposes the fact that I really am an imposter.

Amber:

So it's just like having those conversations with people and delving

Amber:

deep into what's holding you back from maybe learning how to code, progressing

Amber:

in that, applying for jobs and Yeah.

Amber:

And even when you are in that job, like how that's affected, I think that it's

Amber:

very rewarding for me to see people develop and that makes me extremely

Eddie:

happy.

Eddie:

I love, that's something that you like to talk about and get out there cuz I.

Eddie:

If someone were to draw a caricature of a programmer, I would probably match it.

Eddie:

I've been nerdy since I grew up.

Eddie:

I wear glasses, right?

Eddie:

. I match every little checkbox that someone would expect of,

Eddie:

like a caricature of a programmer.

Eddie:

I had a lot of imposter syndrome because I would just feel like these

Eddie:

other people are better than me.

Eddie:

You know what I mean?

Eddie:

Mm-hmm.

Eddie:

like and like as soon as someone else would like point out something

Eddie:

or like do some really good.

Eddie:

It somehow made my work feel less good.

Eddie:

Right.

Eddie:

Less, even though it was different and it's like, I don't know how I got wrapped

Eddie:

up in that, but it was just one, something I kind of kept internally for a long

Eddie:

time, like I didn't tell anyone about it.

Eddie:

It was just like kind of that little secret that like hangs on your shoulder

Eddie:

and kind of weighs you down and.

Eddie:

. I can only imagine this was 10 years into programming.

Eddie:

Mm-hmm.

Eddie:

, you know, it wasn't like year one.

Eddie:

Wow.

Eddie:

If being in the industry that long, like I can feel it.

Eddie:

I can only imagine all the imposter syndrome that everyone trying to get

Eddie:

into tech feels and like how lonely that is to not know that we all feel it and

Eddie:

like this is how you can push through.

Eddie:

So, no, I think that's such a great.

Eddie:

Area to focus on and to help people.

Eddie:

I really love that, that you're focusing on that.

Amber:

Yeah, and it's just like, especially come from a

Amber:

non-technical background when you are hounded with messages, like

Amber:

why are you getting into tech?

Amber:

Like you are almost questioned about your intentions and having that message.

Amber:

Well, at least for me, oh, you're not technical enough.

Amber:

And so it's just like having that, almost like when you go into a relationship,

Amber:

all this baggage, it's like I'm going to this job of all this baggage of like

Amber:

me feeling like companies have told me that I'm just not good enough and

Amber:

I'm going, and I'm starting this role.

Amber:

And I'm like, oh my gosh, am I even good enough?

Amber:

Because I keep being told I'm not technical.

Amber:

How did I manage to land this role?

Amber:

And it's just like sometimes you feel like you're always having to prove

Amber:

that, okay, I am technical enough.

Amber:

I do know what I'm.

Amber:

But as a junior, you don't know what you are doing, , you dunno what you're doing.

Amber:

And no one really ever knows what they're doing, . And it's the

Amber:

the hardest thing to navigate.

Amber:

And it's so complicated.

Amber:

There's so many different layers to this, and it's just like, I've

Amber:

been very fortunate in both my roles that I've had a very supportive and

Amber:

inclusive team, but genuinely, because I promise you, if they weren't, I

Amber:

wouldn't have said anything , but.

Amber:

Some people don't have that, so it's like they don't feel like they can

Amber:

open up to their work colleagues.

Amber:

They don't feel like they can be vulnerable with their managers.

Amber:

It's hard for them to actually address their pain points and how

Amber:

like their company or their manager or their team can support them.

Amber:

I think that can be one of the hardest things to actually manage.

Amber:

Like, oh my gosh, now I'm in the role.

Amber:

What the hell am I doing?

Amber:

? Eddie: No, that's a good point.

Amber:

Right?

Amber:

A lot of focus can be how do you learn programming?

Amber:

How do you get into the job?

Amber:

And then you get into the job and it's like that's almost an area where people

Amber:

kind of almost lose that support.

Amber:

They're suddenly like, oh, well now I got the job.

Amber:

I can't say I don't know what I'm doing.

Amber:

I can't ask questions, and they can kind of.

Amber:

Flounder a little bit in that first job, not knowing what to do.

Amber:

Yeah, and the thing is, it's like asking questions is what they

Amber:

expect and they don't necessarily expect that much from junior developers.

Amber:

Mm-hmm.

Amber:

. And it's the most confusing thing because, so you're told before the job.

Amber:

Okay.

Amber:

You need to know all these things to land this role.

Amber:

And then when you're in the role, it's like we don't expect you to know anything.

Amber:

You don't, you don't have a clue.

Amber:

You are just a junior.

Amber:

And it's how do you go from one extreme to the other?

Amber:

Just let me know because I don't get it , I

Eddie:

don't get it.

Eddie:

Yeah, no, for sure.

Eddie:

I think it's so interesting.

Eddie:

As people are junior, I hope that people can really embrace asking questions

Eddie:

because like it should never leave.

Eddie:

At my last company, I was managing a team of all senior engineers,

Eddie:

but like you have engineers who have to learn the code base, right?

Eddie:

They have to learn the like industry you're in, right?

Eddie:

We were in cybersecurity.

Eddie:

Then you had people, like I hired some people who knew React and they were good

Eddie:

at React, but we were using Angular.

Eddie:

Mm-hmm.

Eddie:

, like I kept having to tell them.

Eddie:

I know you're a senior engineer, but like it's okay to ask question and

Eddie:

at some point I kind of just started saying, Hey, listen, in your first 90

Eddie:

days, that's your permission to ask every question that enters your mind.

Eddie:

Yes, you can ask questions after the first 90 days, but like you

Eddie:

shouldn't be withholding yourself from.

Eddie:

Asking any question in the first 90 days, cuz that's like your

Eddie:

free ticket to ask questions.

Eddie:

Yeah.

Eddie:

Like everyone expects questions in the first 90 days.

Eddie:

I think that's definitely like take advantage of those first 90 days.

Eddie:

Like everyone knows you're new, ask every question . Yeah.

Eddie:

And

Amber:

I think people need more managers like that to communicate.

Amber:

Okay.

Amber:

It's very normal to ask questions like this is something that we celebrate

Amber:

within the organization because if people aren't told that, it's just

Amber:

like they normally do internalize.

Amber:

Oh, okay.

Amber:

If I ask a question, then it's just going to, again, like what we're

Amber:

speaking about, the soloist, oh, it's going to expose that I really am an

Amber:

imposter, and what questions are good questions and is this a stupid question?

Amber:

I don't wanna ask stupid questions.

Amber:

In this big meeting of like 50 people in this zoom call, it can

Amber:

be quite stressful for people.

Amber:

I was very fortunate in my first role as a junior software engineer.

Amber:

The director used to always ask questions.

Amber:

You knew that if he was in a meeting, he would have some question to ask,

Amber:

and it kind of gives you that safety to know that, well, if this director's

Amber:

asking these questions, then I can definitely ask the questions and.

Amber:

You know, it's not an all nothing thing.

Amber:

The great thing about hybrid working is that you can type a question.

Amber:

I didn't necessarily appreciate because I was doing all these

Amber:

things during the pandemic.

Amber:

I didn't necessarily appreciate the fact that these things

Amber:

all used to be in person.

Amber:

I can't imagine doing a standoff in person , like I've never had to do it.

Amber:

And so I can imagine that could be even more anxiety inducing.

Amber:

Everyone looking at you.

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

Right.

Amber:

And you are saying, well, what the hell was I doing yesterday?

Amber:

Cause I didn't have a clue.

Amber:

just trying to like go through the code base and do my best to navigate like

Amber:

whatever ticket that I was assigned.

Amber:

So yeah, I didn't necessarily appreciate just how different it was pre pandemic.

Eddie:

Yeah, it definitely, like you said, I think it's interesting cuz some

Eddie:

people are concerned that like, oh, remote juniors won't have as much support, but

Eddie:

I feel like it's also less scary and it's easier to like slack someone a question

Eddie:

walking over to someone's desk where everyone can hear you and like asking a

Amber:

question.

Amber:

Exactly, but then also when you are onboarded virtually, it can be

Amber:

quite hard to reach out to people.

Amber:

Yeah.

Amber:

At least that's what I found in my experience.

Amber:

Cuz it's like everyone knows each other, everyone knew each other

Amber:

from pre pandemic and you kind of feel like this outside up, you just

Amber:

like this little box in the standup.

Amber:

It can be quite intimidating.

Amber:

Okay, so now I need to reach out to this person and ask them a question

Amber:

. And I dunno why I found that just so scary, even though I knew that.

Amber:

Super nice and really collaborative, and when he did ask him the question,

Amber:

there was like literally no judgment.

Amber:

It still petrified me and I think, again, like that's why it's so important to have

Amber:

these kind of connections, especially when you're working in a virtual environment.

Amber:

When I was starting my role, there was still like we literally were not allowed

Amber:

by the government to go into the office, so there was like no hybrid situation.

Amber:

I think it's really important to have some kind of like one-to-one calls

Amber:

incumbent team members set with new joiners because as a new join.

Amber:

Because everyone, you don't see what everyone's doing, so you

Amber:

assume that everyone is super busy and they won't have time to even

Amber:

have like a 15 minute coffee chat.

Amber:

And I think that when you arrange those things for new joiners, it makes

Amber:

a huge difference in terms of feeling included, having that more likely

Amber:

to have that psychological safety to like, contribute, ask questions,

Amber:

make mistakes, and be open about it.

Eddie:

So, yeah, I totally agree.

Eddie:

I think that anyone who's listening who has like the ability to

Eddie:

kind of push that stuff, right?

Eddie:

If you are a, you know, mid or a senior developer or even just a junior

Eddie:

who's been at your company for a couple years, like when new people

Eddie:

come in, like, do what Amber said.

Eddie:

Reach out, do a coffee chat.

Eddie:

Like you are helping that person feel more comfortable, feel part of the family, and

Eddie:

kind of taking, taking the responsibility of being the person who has been at

Eddie:

the company longer to like invite them.

Eddie:

Yeah,

Amber:

and give them insight into like various different

Amber:

team members what they're like.

Amber:

I remember meeting with my director.

Amber:

He said, you know, if you need help with X, go to this person.

Amber:

If you need help with y, go to that person.

Amber:

And I was just like, I asked the right person, that.

Amber:

Awesome.

Amber:

I'm talking to the perfect person.

Amber:

And it helped me just to gain a better understanding of like my team members and

Amber:

also like areas that they're strong in.

Eddie:

As we wrap up the episode, we always like to see if anyone has anything

Eddie:

they'd like to share with the community.

Eddie:

Obviously, you listed off a lot of really awesome things at the beginning

Eddie:

of the episode, so I'd just like to kind of swing back around and, uh,

Eddie:

have you share some of that stuff again for people to be able to check out.

Amber:

Thank you.

Amber:

So I co-host the Glowing and Tech podcast.

Amber:

It's powered by coding black females.

Amber:

It is a space where we showcase black women in tech.

Amber:

So we split the episodes in two parts of episodes.

Amber:

First part is just learning about them and their journey into tech.

Amber:

And then we have a 10 called discussion called tech topic in 10,

Amber:

which is always like super exciting.

Amber:

And then we have like spilling the tech tea where they share.

Amber:

Controversial take or something in the tech industry, and that's

Amber:

always something super fun.

Amber:

So yeah, definitely check it out.

Amber:

It's on YouTube, Spotify, apple and Auto, audible, , so

Eddie:

yeah.

Eddie:

Yeah, definitely.

Eddie:

We'll include links to that as well as everything else you've mentioned.

Eddie:

kind of in this episode today in the show notes.

Eddie:

So if any of that sounds familiar, definitely go check it out.

Eddie:

And Amber, thank you so much for joining us today.

Eddie:

It's been just a pleasure to talk.

Eddie:

It's been

Amber:

amazing to talk . Thank you so much for having me.

Amber:

This has been so much fun.

Eddie:

Thanks for joining us for episode 29, please just give a

Eddie:

girl a chance with Amber Shand.

Eddie:

You can find out more about Amber on her website.

Eddie:

Amber shand.co.uk or her Twitter at Amber Lee tech.

Eddie:

You can find links to everything we talked about in this episode,

Eddie:

as well as a link to ambers website and Twitter in the show notes.

Eddie:

If you enjoyed this episode, help others discover it as well.

Eddie:

Why don't you give us a shout out on your favorite social media platform,

Eddie:

maybe tag a friend or coworker that you think would enjoy it.

Eddie:

Don't forget to follow us wherever you hang out online.

Eddie:

Or you can subscribe to our newsletter, stay up to date on a weekly basis.

Eddie:

Thank you for listening and have a great day.

Amber:

Have

Amber:

a great day.

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About the Podcast

WebJoy
Find your happy place
The WebJoy podcast is an inclusive community centered on celebrating the diverse origins, skills, and experiences that make up the tech industry.

Talking with guests about their origin stories, what they love about working in their roles, and what they find joy in keeps this an upbeat and rather lighthearted podcast.

We approach the world with optimism and hope, while recognizing the flaws and challenges within our own industry and the world at large. We believe that if we work together, we can all find our happy place.

About your host

Profile picture for Eddie Hinkle

Eddie Hinkle

Eddie's mission is to bring joy and empathy to the tech industry. He does this through engineering leadership, mentoring and podcasting. Eddie currently works as an Engineering Manager at Glassdoor, Mentors on ADPList and hosts the WebJoy podcast.